ELEN VERCH LLEWELYN

1206 - 1253  (47 years)

• Name	ELEN VERCH LLEWELYN  [1]
  Nickname	Helen
  Birth	Abt. 1206	Caernarvonshire, Wales   [1]
  Gender	Female
  Death	Bef. 24 Oct 1253	Chester, Chestershire, England   [1]
  Person ID	I67654	The Kingealogy
  Last Modified	5 Aug 2019

  
  

  Father	Prince of Wales LLYWELYN FAWR Ap LORWETH,   b. 1173, Castle Aberffraw, Caernarvonshire, Wales d. 11 Apr 1240, Aberconwy, Arllechwedd Isaf, Caernarvonshire, Wales (Age 67 years)
  Mother	Princess of England JOAN PLANTAGENET,   b. 1188, London, Middlesex, England d. 03 Apr 1236, Aberconwy, Arllechwedd Isaf, Caernarvonshire, Wales (Age 48 years)
  Marriage	1205	England   [1]
  Family ID	F22017	Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  
  

  Family 1	ROBERT De QUINCY,   b. Abt. 1188, Winchester, Buckley, Hampshire, England d. Aug 1257, Spm, London, Middlesex, England (Age 69 years)
  Children	1. Anne De Quincy,   b. Abt 1238, Blisworth, Northamptonshire, England  [Father: Birth]  [Mother: Birth]     2. Joane Quincy,   b. Abt 1240, Blisworth, Northamptonshire, England  [Father: Natural]  [Mother: Natural] +   3. Hawise De Quincy,   b. Abt 1242, Blisworth, Northampshire, England d. 1285 (Age 43 years)  [Father: Birth]  [Mother: Birth]
  Family ID	F22519	Group Sheet  |  Family Chart
  Last Modified	30 Jan 2015

  
  

  Family 2	The 6th Earl of March DONALD De MAR,   b. Abt 1243, Kildrummy, Aberdeenshire, Scotland d. Aft 25 Jul 1297 (Age > 54 years)
  Marriage	Abt 1269	Kildrummy, Aberdeenshire, Scotland   [1]
  Children	+   1. MARJORY De MAR,   b. Abt 1270, Mar, Aberdeenshire, Scotland d. Bef 24 Jul 1326 (Age < 56 years)     2. Earl of Mar Gratney,   b. Abt 1272, Kildrummy Castle, Kildrummy, Aberdeenshire, Scotland d. Sep 1305 (Age 33 years)     3. Duncan of Mar,   b. Abt 1274, Kildrummy Castle, Kildrummy, Aberdeenshire, Scotland  [Father: Natural]  [Mother: Natural]     4. Alexander of Mar,   b. Abt 1276, Kildrummy Castle, Kildrummy, Aberdeenshire, Scotland  [Father: Natural]  [Mother: Natural] +   5. Isabell of March,   b. Abt 1278, Kildrummy Castle, Kildrummy, Aberdeenshire, Scotland d. Abt 1320 (Age 42 years)  [Father: Birth]  [Mother: Birth]     6. Mary of Mar,   b. Abt 1280, Kildrummy Castle, Kildrummy, Aberdeenshire, Scotland  [Father: Natural]  [Mother: Natural]
  Family ID	F16904	Group Sheet  |  Family Chart
  Last Modified	5 Aug 2019

  
  

• Event Map

  Birth - Abt. 1206 - Caernarvonshire, Wales Marriage - Abt 1269 - Kildrummy, Aberdeenshire, Scotland  = Link to Google Earth

  
  

• Notes

  [royalfam.ged] You have asked the $64,000 question. You have the two Helens wrong. The Helen that married [1] John le Scot and m[2] Robert de Quincey was the daughter of Joan. The other Helen is not a proven daughter of Llywelyn at all. You have assigned Gwladys to Joan instead of Tangwystl -- and I think that is fair. It is 50/50 at best that you are right -- and with Joan's lands going to Gwladys family and Gwladys dying at Windsor -- and the Mortimer genealogy going through Joan to William the Conqueror in a 14th century manuscript tradition, I would say the weight of the slim facts favor Joan over the Welsh mistress. Since you have to enter a mother, I would keep it that way. I will change my personal database from Tangwystl to Joan on the basis of this discussion. From: KHF333@aol.com Llywelyn ap Iowerth, Prince of North Wales, and his lawful wife, Joan, had several legitimat e children, among them being Ellen, wife successively of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester an d Huntingdon, and Robert de Quincy, Knt. Ellen's place as a legitimate daughter of Joan is p roven by an entry in Calendar of Close Rolls, 1234-1237 (1908), pp. 538-539, where Countess E llen is styled "our niece" [nepte nostra] by Henry III, King of England. Recently, however, I encountered further evidence which supports blood kinship between Counte ss Ellen and the English royal family. Ellen had two surviving daughters by her marriage t o Robert de Quincy, one being Hawise de Quincy, wife of Baldwin Wake. The record below state s specifically that Hawise de Quincy was of the "consanguinity" (bloodline) of King Edward I: "Date: 18 Feb. 1282 Order [by King Edward I] to the sheriff of Lincoln to levy Ð100 from the goods late of Baldwi n Wak, deceased, by view of Aubrey de Wintelbiry, and deliver the same to Hawise, late his wi fe, for the expenses of his burial, and to levy also Ð40 therefrom by view of the same Aubre y and deliver them to her by reason of her consanguinity." [Calendar of Fine Rolls, 1 (1911): 159]. Hawise de Quincy, wife of Baldwin Wake, and King Edward I were first cousins first removed, t hey both being descendants of King John. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah E-mail: royalancestry@msn.com copyright

  
  

• Sources

  [S255 ] Gedcom: royalfam.ged. Date of Import: Feb 10, 2006