Report: Notes: Individuals
Description: Individuals with Notes.
Matches 10701 to 10750 of 17371 » Comma-delimited CSV file
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| # | Person ID | Last Name | First Name | Birth Date | Death Date | Living | note | Tree |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 10701 | I66469 | PLANTAGENET | EDMUND | 16 Dec 1244 | 5 Jun 1296 | 0 | [King Penrose Family.GED] [WilliamKingAncestry.ged] W Betham: Genealogical Tables Tab. 568 M L Call: The Royal Ancestry Bible Vol 1 Chart 66 |
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| 10702 | I66530 | PLANTAGENET | EDWARD | 17 Jun 1239 | 7 Jul 1307 | 0 | Westminster Palace | tree1 |
| 10703 | I66530 | PLANTAGENET | EDWARD | 17 Jun 1239 | 7 Jul 1307 | 0 | Westminster Abbey | tree1 |
| 10704 | I66530 | PLANTAGENET | EDWARD | 17 Jun 1239 | 7 Jul 1307 | 0 | Near Carlisle | tree1 |
| 10705 | I66530 | PLANTAGENET | EDWARD | 17 Jun 1239 | 7 Jul 1307 | 0 | [King Penrose Family.GED] [WilliamKingAncestry.ged] W H Turton: The Plantagenet Ancestry P. 96 M E Sorley: The Sorley Pedigrees P. 26 W Betham: Genealogical Tables Tab. 606, 613 M L Call: The Royal Ancestry Bible Vol 1: 21 |
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| 10706 | I58833 | PLANTAGENET | EDWARD | 25 Apr 1284 | 21 Sep 1327 | 0 | Caernarvon Castel | tree1 |
| 10707 | I58833 | PLANTAGENET | EDWARD | 25 Apr 1284 | 21 Sep 1327 | 0 | Berkeley Castle | tree1 |
| 10708 | I58833 | PLANTAGENET | EDWARD | 25 Apr 1284 | 21 Sep 1327 | 0 | [King Penrose Family.GED] [WilliamKingAncestry.ged] M L Call: The Royal Ancestry Bible Vol 1 Chart 21 |
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| 10709 | I67696 | PLANTAGENET | EDWARD | 13 Nov 1312 | 21 Jun 1377 | 0 | Windsor Castle | tree1 |
| 10710 | I67696 | PLANTAGENET | EDWARD | 13 Nov 1312 | 21 Jun 1377 | 0 | Westminster Abbey | tree1 |
| 10711 | I67696 | PLANTAGENET | EDWARD | 13 Nov 1312 | 21 Jun 1377 | 0 | Shene Palace | tree1 |
| 10712 | I67696 | PLANTAGENET | EDWARD | 13 Nov 1312 | 21 Jun 1377 | 0 | [King Penrose Family.GED] [WilliamKingAncestry.ged] M L Call: The Royal Ancestry Bible Vol 1 Chart 21. |
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| 10713 | I59347 | Plantagenet | Edward | 15 Jun 1330 | 8 Jun 1376 | 0 | Canterbury Cathedral | tree1 |
| 10714 | I67515 | Plantagenet | Edward | 28 Apr 1442 | 09 Apr 1483 | 0 | St George's Chapel | tree1 |
| 10715 | I67515 | Plantagenet | Edward | 28 Apr 1442 | 09 Apr 1483 | 0 | Rouen Cathedral | tree1 |
| 10716 | I67515 | Plantagenet | Edward | 28 Apr 1442 | 09 Apr 1483 | 0 | Westminster Palace | tree1 |
| 10717 | I67515 | Plantagenet | Edward | 28 Apr 1442 | 09 Apr 1483 | 0 | [royalfam.ged] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_IV_of_England From: royalancestry@msn.com (Douglas Richardson) A few days ago, I posted a list of the known illegitimate children of Edward IV, King of Engl and (died 1483). Since posting, I've been contacted by two newsgroup members each of whom ha s added a new potential illegitimate child of King Edward IV. On my own, I've found addition al sources for two of the previously identified illegitimate children. I've also found a ref erence to yet another alleged illegitimate daughter in a late visitation who reputedly married into the Musgrave family. I haven't included that child in the list below, as I haven't ye t confirmed that such a child and marriage occurred. If anyone has anything to add to the information below or possesses any information on a poss ible illegitimate daughter who married a Musgrave, please post that information here on the n ewsgroup or contact me at my e-mail address below. Many thanks to Peter Sutton and James Trabue for sharing their information with me. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah E-mail: royalancestry@msn.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - List of Illegitimate Children of King Edward IV Illegitimate child of Edward IV of England, by an unknown mistress, possibly Elizabeth Lucy: i. ELIZABETH PLANTAGENET, married before 1477 THOMAS LUMLEY, Knt., son and heir apparent of George Lumley, Knt., Lord Lumley, by Elizabeth, daughter and heiress of Roger Thornton, Esq. They had four sons, Richard [Lord Lumley], John, George, and Roger, Esq., and three daughters, Anne (wife of Robert Ogle, 4th Lord Ogle), Sibyl (wife of William Hilton, Knt., de jure 9th Lord Hylton), and Elizabeth (wife of Robert Cresswell, Esq.). SIR THOMAS LUMLEY was living 27 Oct. 1495, and died prior to 1507. Descendants (not traced). [Note: Additional evidence of Elizabeth's parentage may be seen in the papal dispensation granted in 1489 for Elizabeth's son, Richard Lumley, to marry Anne Conyers, they being related in the [3rd and] 4th degree of kindred. A dispensation was needed for this marriage, as the two parties were both descended from Ralph Neville, K.G., 1st Earl of Westmorland, and his wife, Joan Beaufort (see Testamenta Eboracensia 3 (Surtees Soc., vol. 45) (1865): 355)]. Collins-Brydges, Peerage of England 3 (1812): 703 (citing MS. E. 6, f. 5, b. in Offic. Arm.). R. Surtees, Hist. & Antiq. of the County Palatine of Durham 2 (1820): 139 (Lumley monument in Chester-le-Street, co. Durham church: " ... inde pater efficitur illius Thomae qui ex magni Regis Edovardi quarti filia naturali, Richardum susceperat ..."), 140 (monumental inscription at Chester-le-Street: "Sir Thomas Lumley, Knight, sonne of George Lord Lumley, maried Elizabeth, daughter naturel to Kinge Edwarde the fourth, and he died in the life of his father, and had issue Richard Lord Lumley") (Elizabeth's arms: 1. France and England; 2. a plain cross of Ulster; 3. as 2; 4. barry of six, on a chief three pallets, between two esquires' bastions, dexter and sinister, an inescutcheon Argent, Mortimer, over all a bar sinister), 162-164 (Lumley chart). Surtees Soc. 41 (1862): 27 (1530 Vis. Durham) (Lumley pedigree: "Thomas Lumley, son and heyre to George, maried Elisabeth, bastard doughter to Kyng Edward the iiijth"). R. Surtees, Hist. & Antiq. of the County Palatine of Durham 2 (1820): 163-164. H.S.P. 16 (1881): 189-190 (1563/4 Vis. Yorkshire) (Lumley pedigree: "Thomas Lord Lomley son & heyr to George = Elsabeth bastard doughter to Kyng Edward the Fourth"). J. Foster, Pedigrees Recorded at the Visitations of the County Palatine of Durham (1887), pg. 216 (Lumley pedigree: "Thomas Lumley, son and heire = Elizabeth, bastard dau. of Edward IV"). C.P. 7 (1929): 30 (sub Hylton); 8 (1932): 274 (sub Lumley); 10 (1945): 33-34. TAG 50 (1974): 81-86. M.S. Byrne, The Lisle Letters (1981) [citing Harleian MS. 4033, f. 21 (23) v; Leland's Itinerary VI, f. 63]. Chris Given-Wilson & A. Curteis, Royal Bastards of Medieval England (1984), pp. 160-161,179. Illegitimate child of Edward IV of England, by a mistress, Elizabeth Wayte: i. ARTHUR PLANTAGENET (otherwise ARTHUR WAYTE), K.G., King’s Spear, Esquire of the Body, Sheriff of Hampshire, Vice-Admiral of England, Trier of Petitions in Parliament, Governor of Calais, Warden of the Cinque Ports, Privy Councillor, born say 1475 (presumed to be “my Lord the Bastard” mentioned in an Exchequer account dated 1477, first occurs as an adult in 1501). He married (1st) 12 Nov. 1511 ELIZABETH GREY, suo jure Baroness Lisle, widow of Edmund Dudley, Esq. (beheaded 18 Aug. 1510), and daughter and heiress of Edward Grey, Knt., Viscount Lisle, by his 1st wife, Elizabeth, daughter of John Talbot, Knt., Viscount Lisle. They had three daughters, Frances (wife of John Basset and Thomas Monke), Elizabeth (wife of Francis Jobson, Knt), and Bridget (wife of William Carden, Knt.). In 1514 he was captain of the Vice-Admiral's ship "Trinity Sovereign." He attended the King at the Field of Cloth of Gold in 1520. In consequence of his marriage, he was created 25 Apr. 1523 Viscount Lisle. In 1528 he purchased the manors of Segenworth, Chark, Lee, Sutton, West Stratton, etc., Hampshire from his cousin, John Wayte, Esq., of Titchfield. Arthur married (2nd) in 1529 Honor Grenville, widow of John Basset, Knt. (died 31 Jan. 1522/9), and daughter of Thomas Grenville, Knt., by his 1st wife, Isabel, daughter of Otes Gilbert, Knt. They had no issue. He was imprisoned in the Tower of London on suspicion of treason 19 May 1540. SIR ARTHUR PLANTAGENET, Viscount Lisle, died there 3 Mar. 1541/2. His widow, Honor, was buried at Logan, Cornwall 30 Apr. 1566. Modern descendants (not traced). J. Burke, General & Heraldic Dictionary of the Peerages ... Extinct, Dormant, and in Abeyance (1831), pp. 433,513-514. G.F. Beltz, Memorials of the Most Noble Order of the Garter (1841), pg. clxxii. H.S.P. 2 (1870): 74-75 (1619 Vis. Leicester) (Gray pedigree: "Elizab. [Gray] Nupta Edm. Dudley postea Arthur Plantagenet"); 16 (1881): 308-310 (1563/4 Vis. Yorkshire) (Talbot pedigree: "Elsabeth [Talbot] doughter & sole heyre [1] = Edmond Dudley on of the Prevy Consell to Kyng Henry 7th., [2]= Arthur Plantagenet bastard son to Edward IV. 2 husband"). J.L. Vivian, Visitations of the County of Devon (1895), pp. 46-47,569. D.N.B. 15 (1909): 1285-1287 (biog. of Arthur Plantagenet). List of Early Chan. Proc. 5 (1912): 288,358,465,472.473; 6 (1922): 109,134. C.L. Scofield, Life and Reign of Edward the Fourth 2 (1923): 56,161. C.P. 8 (1932): 63-68 (sub Lisle). Cal. of Ancient Deeds - Series B Pt. 3 (List & Index Soc., vol. 113) (1975): B.10780, B.12180. Ancient Deeds Series BB (List & Index Soc., vol. 137) (1977), pp. 80-81,83,90. M.S. Byrne, The Lisle Letters 2 (1981): 63 (Arthur Plantagenet styled "cousin" by Margaret Pole, Countess of Salisbury); 1 (1981): 481, 4{1981): 140 (instances of Henry Pole, Lord Montagu, styled "cousin" to Arthur Plantagenet). Exchequer Ancient Deeds - DD Series (List & Index Soc., vol. 200) (1983), pp. 193,207. C. Given-Wilson & A. Curteis, Royal Bastards of Medieval England (1984), pp. 158,161-174. Alleged illegitimate children of Edward IV of England, by an unknown mistress (or mistresses), _____: i. GRACE PLANTAGENET, said to be present in 1492 on the funeral barge of Queen Elizabeth Wydeville, widow of King Edward IV. C. Ross, Edward IV (1974), pg. 316, foonote 2 (citing BM Arundel MS. 26, ff. 29v-30v). C. Given-Wilson & A. Curteis, Royal Bastards of Medieval England (1984), pp. 158,161-174. ii. _____ PLANTAGENET (daughter), married (as his 1st wife) JOHN AUDLEY (or TUCHET), younger son of John Audley (or Tuchet), Knt., 6th Lord Audley, Lord Treasurer of England, by Anne, daughter of Thomas Echingham, Knt. They had no issue. Collections for a History of Staffordshire n.s. 12 (1909): 229. MS. pedigree of Audley family dated 1618 on file at the William SaltCollection at the William Salt Library in Stafford, England. (These citations kindly provided by Peter Sutton). iii. MARY PLANTAGENET, married after 1485 (as his 2nd wife) HENRY HARMAN, of Ellam (in Crayford), Kent, Clerk of the Crown to King Henry VII, son of Thomas and Elizabeth Harman. HENRY HARMAN left a will dated 1501, proved 1502 (P.C.C., 15 Blamyr), naming his deceased wife, Agnes, his living wife, Mary, and eleven children, George, William, Thomas, Roger, John, Henry, Robert, Elizabeth (wife of _____ Sparke), Alice, Beatrice, and Anne. The maternity of the children is uncertain, but at least the two youngest sons were by Henry Harman's last wife, Mary, as indicated by Henry's will. Misc. Gen. et Her. 4th ser. 2 (1908): 227-228 (Harman pedigree) (no identification of wives). H.S.P. 74 (1923): 61-62 (1574 Vis. Kent) (Harman pedigree: "Henry Harman Clarke of ye Crowne vnto H: 7 ... This man [Henry Harman] was H: 7 man to whome he gaue the clarkeship of the Crowne and with all gaue him the Crest belowe*, depick[t]ed one his armes which Crist was giuen him after hee had maried with E: 4 daughter") (The latter citation kindly supplied by James Trabue). Below is a list of the illegitimate children of King Edward IV of England taken from variety of sources. The list includes no new names, but I've commented on additional evidence which appears to prove the parentage of Elizabeth, wife of Thomas Lumley. Gary Boyd Roberts's useful book, RD 500, indicates that there are American descendants of Elizabeth Lumley. There seems to be confusion in surviving records between King Edward IV's mistresses, Dame Elizabeth Lucy and Elizabeth Wayte. I suspect the two women were separate and distinct individuals. King Edward IV is alleged to have had issue by Elizabeth Lucy prior to his marriage to Queen Elizabeth Wydeville in 1464. I presume that issue was King Edward IV's bastard daughter, Elizabeth Lumley, who married in or before 1477. Elizabeth Wayte's son, Arthur, on the other hand, doesn't occur in records as an adult until 1501 and didn't marry until 1511. This suggests a rather wide gap in ages between the two bastards, Elizabeth Lumley and Arthur Plantagenet. My best guess is that Elizabeth Lumley was born say 1460/2 and that Arthur Plantagenet was born say 1475. If anyone has any corrections or additions to the list below, I'd appreciate it if they would post them here on the newsgroup. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah E-mail: royalancestry@msn.com |
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| 10718 | I44573 | Plantagenet | Eleanor | 17 Jun 1264 | 12 Oct 1297 | 0 | Westminster Abbey | tree1 |
| 10719 | I44573 | Plantagenet | Eleanor | 17 Jun 1264 | 12 Oct 1297 | 0 | Windsor Castle | tree1 |
| 10720 | I66543 | PLANTAGENET | ELEANOR | Abt. 1311 | 11 Jan 1372 | 0 | [King Penrose Family.GED] [WilliamKingAncestry.ged] W H Turton: The Plantagenet Ancestry P. 97 J P Yeatman: The History of the House of Arundel P. 324 M L Call: The Royal Ancestry Bible Vol 1 Chart 28 |
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| 10721 | I66529 | Plantagenet | Elizabeth | 1 Aug 1282 | 5 May 1316 | 0 | [King Penrose Family.GED] [WilliamKingAncestry.ged] M E Sorley: The Sorley Pedigrees PP 26, 48 Wutz: Magna Charta P. 216 M L Call: The Royal Ancestry Bible Vol 1 Chart 342 |
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| 10722 | I67513 | PLANTAGENET | ELIZABETH | 11 Feb 1446 | 11 Feb 1503 | 0 | Westminster Palace | tree1 |
| 10723 | I67513 | PLANTAGENET | ELIZABETH | 11 Feb 1446 | 11 Feb 1503 | 0 | Henry VII Chapel, Westminster Abbey | tree1 |
| 10724 | I67513 | PLANTAGENET | ELIZABETH | 11 Feb 1446 | 11 Feb 1503 | 0 | Westminster Palace | tree1 |
| 10725 | I67513 | PLANTAGENET | ELIZABETH | 11 Feb 1446 | 11 Feb 1503 | 0 | Tower Of London | tree1 |
| 10726 | I67513 | PLANTAGENET | ELIZABETH | 11 Feb 1446 | 11 Feb 1503 | 0 | [royalfam.ged] http://tudorhistory.org/people/eyork/ |
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| 10727 | I64471 | Plantagenet | Elizabeth | Abt 1460 | 0 | [royalfam.ged] If we put together what has been published about the mistresses of Edward IV, we may get an interesting picture. Cahiers de Saint Louis, page 880, gives Edward IV by Elisabeth/Elizabeth Waite 1.Arthur by NN 2.Grace 3.Elisabeth/Elizabeth, she married her cousin Thomas, 4th Lord Lumley (he wasn't a Lord Lumley!!!) The Plantagenet Encyclopedia, General Editor Elizabeth Hallam, page 160. Arthur Plantagenet, died 1542. Illegitimate son of Edward IV of England and Elizabeth Lucy, daughter of Thomas Wayte, a minor Hampshire gentleman. Their affaire lasted from around Edward IV's accession in 1461 to his marriage to Elizabeth Woodville in 1464. The Complete Peerage Volume VIII page 63. Elizabeth suo jure Baroness Lisle, married (2) 12 November 1511 Arthur Plantagenet, illegitimate son of Edward IV. His mother's name is unknown; by some said to be the "Lady Elizabeth Lucy" by others the notorious Jane Shore, and by others one Elizabeth Waite, he himself being at first known as Arthur Waite. Blood Royal, by Charles Mosley, pages65 and 166 He gives Edward IV nine legitimate children whereas Cahiers de Saint Louis gives as a tenth legitimate child Brigitte 1480-1517. One less legitimate child but one more illegitimate one. However, uncertainty is certainly indicated. Edward IV is said to have had (a) a bastard son (Edward, of Wigmore, died young 1468) by Eleanor, daughter of the 4th Earl of Ormonde. ====somehow I doubt this one, as wasn't Eleanor Butler supposedly engaged to Edward IV? An engagement (if there was one) which should render the children by Elizabeth Woodville illegitimate? (b) a bastard daughter (Elizabeth married Thomas Lumley and had issue) by a woman referred to as "Lady Elizabeth Lucy" presumably wife of Sir William Lucy who died in 1492 Jane) Shore (wife of William Shore, a London merchant) on whom he fathered a bastard daughter Grace (living 1492, Or Elizabeth Waite; ===the link between Elizabeth Waite and what follows is, to me, not very clear===== 4e.Arthur, surname originally Waite or Wayte, subsequently Plantagenet, What have we got from this? That Arthur was known as Arthur Waite, may give an indication that his mother was Elizabeth Waite/Wayte. Elizabeth Hallam's book makes this Elizabeth Waite a Mrs. Elizabeth Lucy. The Complete Peerage makes this Mrs. Elizabeth a Lady Elizabeth Lucy. "Blood Royal" makes Lady Elizabeth Lucy also mother of Elizabeth (Lumley). Elizabeth Hallam indicates as years of possible birth of the child(ren) of Edward IV by Elizabeth Waite as about 1461 till 1464/5. "Blood Royal" guesses that Arthur was born about 1470 and Richardson guesses "say 1475". Richardson wants him to be as young as possible, because Arthur didn't marry until 1511. If Arthur was born in 1463 he would have been about 48 when marrying, if he was born in 1470 he would have been 41, if born in 1475 he would have been about 36. However, we most not forget that he was in 1511 "only" the bastard brother of the Queen, and also he married the widow of a disgraced man, disgraced enough to be decapitated. And this, in my opinion, makes the age of Arthur, when marrying, irrelevant, he could well have been 48 as easy as only 36. For the children of Thomas Lumley and Elizabeth "Plantagenet", Richardson seems to follow Burke's Extinct Peerage, one son, Richard (Lord Lumley) and three daughters Anne (wife of Robert Ogle) Sibyl (wife of William Hilton Elizabeth (wife of Robert Cresswell) Then follows a weird observation "Descendants (not traced)". Whose descendants? Or, not traced by whom? Especially as earlier in his message he notes that Gary Boyd Roberts indicated that there are American descendants of Elizabeth Lumley. Cahiers de Saint Louis, which Richardson has learned to appreciate, gives the same three daughters but instead of one son, gives four sons. The last son, Roger, is important as he is an ancestor of Prince Charles (See Paget O24907). That Richardson's remark "Descendants (not traced)" is ludicrous can also be shown by the known acestry of just three of the children of Thomas and Elizabeth Lumley (let's skip Roger, he has been shown to have descendants till the present): Richard Lumley he is an ancestor of the later Earls of Scarborough, HRH Richard, Duke of Gloucester, Dukes of Buccleuch, Dukes of Northumberland, Marquess of Exeter, Marquess of Linlithgow, Marquess of Zetland Anne Lumley she is ancestor of HM the Queen, Lady Diana Spencer, Sarah Ferguson, Dukes of Atholl, Bedford, Northumberland, Richmond, Earls of Harewood and Warwick Sybil Lumley she is ancestor of HM the Queen, Lady Diana Spencer, Dukes of Abercorn, Buccleuch, Devonshire, Marlborough, Westminster, Northumberland and the last Duke of Leeds. Hope this is of some interest and helps. As always, best wishes Leo van de Pas |
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| 10728 | I44684 | Plantagenet | Geoffrey | 23 Sep 1158 | 19 Aug 1186 | 0 | [royalfam.ged] The best thing the Constance theory has going for it is drama. It would make a good movie. Joan was born somewhere around 1187/1188. Constance was carrying Geoffrey's child in 1186 when Geoffrey was killed. The child, the ill-fated Arthur, was born posthumous. This is the same Arthur, nephew of John, that John allegedly murdered. He had to do penance for his part in the act. So -- if Constance were also Joan's mother, Arthur was Joan's stepbrother and also a stepson to John! Also, Henry II forced Constance to remarry after the death of Geoffrey to one of his favorites, Randulph de Blundeville, Earl of Chester. One could speculate that the reason she needed to marry a man that outlived her by 31 years is that she was pregnant and needed a husband, but the chronology is very tight, as Henry died in 1189 shortly after forcing the match. Great movie material, but it seems a little doubtful. The best thing we can learn from this is that Joan's papal decree shows that no one wanted her to know who her mother really was. It was a secret then and has remained that way through the ages. All we can learn from John's whereabouts was that he was in both France and England at the time Joan was likely conceived. It looks as though the identity of Clementia will be a mystery for a very long time. I was hoping we had something new with the land transfers and the wife of Joan's custodian being named Clemence, but there are too many possible interpretations. -Ken KHF333@aol.com |
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| 10729 | I44681 | Plantagenet | Henry | 28 Mar 1155 | 11 Jun 1183 | 0 | Bermandsey Palace | tree1 |
| 10730 | I44681 | Plantagenet | Henry | 28 Mar 1155 | 11 Jun 1183 | 0 | Chcateau De Mortel | tree1 |
| 10731 | I44576 | Plantagenet | Henry | 13 Jul 1267 | 14 Oct 1274 | 0 | Windsor Castle | tree1 |
| 10732 | I62852 | PLANTAGENET | HENRY | 1281 | 22 Sep 1345 | 0 | [King Penrose Family.GED] [WilliamKingAncestry.ged] W H Turton: The Plantagenet Ancestry P. 97. M L Call: The Royal Ancestry Bible Vol 1 Chart 66 |
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| 10733 | I62850 | Plantagenet | Henry | Abt 1300 | 24 Mar 1361 | 0 | Grosmont Castle | tree1 |
| 10734 | I62850 | Plantagenet | Henry | Abt 1300 | 24 Mar 1361 | 0 | Newark Church | tree1 |
| 10735 | I62850 | Plantagenet | Henry | Abt 1300 | 24 Mar 1361 | 0 | Spms | tree1 |
| 10736 | I59168 | PLANTAGENET | HENRY CURTMANTLE | 25 Mar 1133 | 6 Jul 1189 | 0 | [royalfam.ged] Do we have a date in 1203 as to when Joan was sent to England from Normandy? This would be interesting and possibly enlightening - John himself was in Normandy during most of that year, in Le Mans in January but then moving into Normandy near Argentan and not leaving Normandy (although this time, for good) on 5 December. As recorded by Giraldus Cambrensis and the author of the Histoire de Guillaume le Marechal, John was clearly in the process of losing hold of Normandy during that year, so it would seem Joan's relocation to England was part of the overall process of collapse. As to the issue of Henry I's issue, it may be that he thought the alliances of his illegitimate brood would not complicate the matter of succession - however, immediate prior history does not mesh well with this presumption. The 70-year period preceding Henry I's death involved several problematic dynastic problems: A. The forceful taking of the English throne by a bastard (his own father); B. The lengthy contest for the throne between two brothers (his own, being Robert 'Curthose ' and William 'Rufus') C. His own acquisition of the English throne on the death of William 'Rufus', in place of his absent elder brother Robert, in 1100 [the resolution of their claims not being decided except on the field of battle in 1106, at Tinchebrai]. Henry I's evident desire was for the succession of his son (or at least one of his sons), and failing that, the succession of his daughter Matilda. He knew full well, little was guaranteed as to the English succession, else he would not have required baronial agreement to Matilda's succession before his death. Do we know, in the event of Matilda's death, that he would not prefer the accession of his son Robert (the bastard known as Robert de Caen, the Earl of Gloucester) over any available nephew ? Best regards, John P. Ravilious Therav3@aol.com royal92.ged, Date of Import: Feb 10, 2006, lists May 18, 1152 Bordeaux, France as the marriage information for Elbeonore and Henry. |
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| 10737 | I58911 | PLANTAGENET | JOAN | 1188 | 03 Apr 1236 | 0 | [royalfam.ged] The only place where her mother is named is in the Tewkesbury Annals, where Joan's death is recorded. The Tewkesbury annalist says Joan was a daughter of King John and of "Regina Clementia". Nobody knows who this "Queen Clementia" was. William Addams Reitwiesner wrei@erols.com |
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| 10738 | I59432 | PLANTAGENET | JOAN | 1272 | 23 Apr 1307 | 0 | [King Penrose Family.GED] [WilliamKingAncestry.ged] M E Sorley: The Sorley Pedigrees pp. 45, 26 |
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| 10739 | I66568 | Plantagenet | Joan | 1321 | 24 Aug 1362 | 0 | Grey Friars | tree1 |
| 10740 | I66626 | Plantagenet | Joan | 29 Sep 1328 | 07 Aug 1385 | 0 | [King Penrose Family.GED] [WilliamKingAncestry.ged] W H Turton: The Plantagenet Ancestry P. 96 |
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| 10741 | I66626 | Plantagenet | Joan | 29 Sep 1328 | 07 Aug 1385 | 0 | d.s.p. - died without issue, childless | tree1 |
| 10742 | I63423 | Plantagenet | Joan of Lancaster | Abt 1310 | 07 Jul 1349 | 0 | [King Penrose Family.GED] [WilliamKingAncestry.ged] M E Sorley: The Sorley Pedigrees P. 31, 26 M L Call: The Royal Ancestry Bible Vol 1 Chart 171 |
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| 10743 | I44670 | PLANTAGENET | JOHN | 24 Dec 1167 | 19 Oct 1216 | 0 | [royalfam.ged] Please find below a revised listing of the bastard children of King John. The list has been augmented by many new references, corrections, and additions since my last posting of this listing. The new listing includes Philip "Fiz Le Rey" [i.e., Philip the king's son]) found in a 1263 Sussex fine as a possible bastard child of King John. Also, it appears there may be a link between Isabel, wife of Richard Fitz Ives, and another royal bastard, Eudes Fitz Roy. I've learned that in 1245, Isabel's son and heir, William Fitz Ives, sued Giles de Chanceaux regarding property in Cornwall. This is surely the same man who was granted Eudes Fitz Roy's properties in Essex on his death without issue in 1242. The Fitz Ives and Chanceaux link deserves further study. Comments are invited. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah - - - - - - - - - - REVISED LISTING OF BASTARD CHILDREN OF KING JOHN OF ENGLAND: Legitimated child of John of England, by a mistress, Clemence _____: i. JOAN OF ENGLAND, married LLYWELYN AP IORWERTH, Prince of North Wales [see WAKE 4]. Illegitimate child of John of England, by a mistress, _____ de Warenne, daughter of Hamelin, 5th Earl of Surrey, by Isabel, daughter and heiress of William de Warenne, 3rd Earl of Surrey [see WARENNE 2]: i. RICHARD FITZ ROY (or DE WARENNE), Knt., Baron of Chilham, Kent, married ROSE DE DOVER [see ATHOLL 4]. Illegitimate child of John of England, by a mistress, Hawise _____: i. OLIVER FITZ ROY. He defended Wolvesey Castle for Peter des Roches, Bishop of Winchester, in 1216. In 1217 he was granted the lands formerly held by Peter Fitz Herbert to sustain him in the king's service. In 1218 he arrived with other English knights at Damietta in the company of Papal legate, Pelayo. He did not return. H.R. Luard, Chronica Majora 3 (1876): 40-41. C.P.R., 1216-1225 (1901), pp. 42-43,92. S. Painter, Reign of King John (1949), pp. 232-233. NEHGR 119 (1965): 94-102. J.M. Powell, Anatomy of a Crusade (1986), pg. 235. N. Vincent, Peter des Roches (1996), pp. 71,175. Illegitimate children of John of England, by an unknown mistress (or mistresses): i. JOHN FITZ ROY, evidently a clerk, supported by the custodians of the see of Lincoln in 1201. D.M. Stenton, Great Roll of the Pipe Michaelmas 1201 (Pipe Roll Soc., n.s., vol. 14) (1936), pp. xix,192-193. S. Painter, Reign of King John (1949), pp. 232-233. NEHGR 119 (1965): 94-102. ii. GEOFFREY FITZ ROY. In 1204 he received a loan by the pledge of William Longesp©be, Earl of Salisbury, and Peter de Stokes. In 1205 he led an expedition into Poitou and died the same year. Curia Regis Rolls 3 (1926): 321 (suit dated 1205: " ... quam diu predictus Radulfus [de Trublevill] fuerit in servicio nostro in Pictavia cum Gaufrido filio nostro"). D.M. Stenton, Great Roll of the Pipe Michaelmas 1204 (Pipe Roll Soc., n.s., vol. 18) (1940), pp. xxxv-xxxvj,xlj,33,60,87,131. D.M. Stenton, Great Roll of the Pipe Michaelmas 1205 (Pipe Roll Soc., n.s., vol. 19) (1941), pp. xviij-xix,19,79-80. S. Painter, Reign of King John (1949), pp. 232-233. NEHGR 119 (1965): 94-102. iii. HENRY FITZ ROY, Knt., of Waltham, Ashby, Brigsley, Gonerby (in Hatcliffe), Hawerby, and North Coates, co. Lincoln, and Chilham, Kent. He was sent as a student to the Prior of Kenilworth in 1207. In 1215 he was granted the lands of Robert Fitz Walter in Cornwall. In 1217 he and Ralph de Raleigh were granted the manor of Waltham, co. Lincoln formerly held by Alan Fitz Count to sustain them in royal service. In 1231 he was granted all of the land of Henry de Avaugor, a Norman, in Waltham, co. Lincoln. He married before 1236 EVE DE BLANCHMINSTER (or WHITCHURCH), widow of William de Champernoun (living 1230), of Umberleigh (in Atherington) and High Bickington, Devon, and daughter and heiress of Reynold de Blanchminster (or Whitchurch) (living 1248), of Shrivenham and Winterbourne (in Chieveley), co. Berks, and Bolney, co. Oxford, by his 1st wife, Alice, daughter and co-heiress of Nicholas de Bolney. They had no issue. SIR HENRY FITZ ROY died shortly before 8 Apr. 1245. His widow, Eve, married (3rd) before 30 June 1252 Giles de Clifford (living 1276). C.Ch.R. 1 (1895): 137 (styled "Henry the king's brother"). J.L. Vivian, Visitations of the County of Devon (1895), pp. 160. C.P.R., 1216-1225 (1901), pp. 128, 574 ("Henricus filius regis"). C.C.R., 1227-1231 (1902), pg. 51. C.P.R., 1225-1232 (1903), pp. 311 ("Henricus frater regis"), 357,441. C.C.R., 1234-1237 (1908), pg. 219 ("Henrico fratri regis"). Book of Fees 1 (1920): 362 ("Henricus frater regis"), 617 ("Henricus filius regis"); 2 (1923): 660,675,1021 (instances of "Henricus filius Regis"). C.P.R., 1232-1247 (1906), pp. 20,296,450. C.C.R., 1237-1242 (1911), pg. 511 ("Henricum filium regis"). VCH Berkshire 3 (19??): 424; 4 (1924): 63,513,533. C.C.R., 1251-1253 (1927), pg. 116. S. Painter, Reign of King John (1949), pp. 232-233. C.P. 12 Pt. 2 (1959): 645 (sub Wilington). Curia Regis Rolls 13 (1959): 138,215,283 ("Henricus filius regis John"), 290,364-365,371,514,542; 15 (1972): 83,449 (styled "Henricum filium le Rey"). R.A. Brown, Memoranda Roll for the Tenth Year of the Reign of King John (1207-8) (Pipe Roll Soc., n.s., vol. 31) (1957), pg. 137 (Henry called "our son" [filio nostro] by King John). NEHGR 119 (1965): 94-102. B.R. Kemp, Reading Abbey Cartularies 1 (Camden, 4th ser., vol. 31) (1986): 375. S.D. Church, Household Knights of King John (1999), pg. 127. iv. OSBERT GIFFORD, Knt. In 1215 he received the lands of Thomas de Ardern in Oxfordshire. In 1216 he likewise received Ardern's lands in Bundes, Norfolk, and elsewhere in Suffolk, Essex, and Sussex, and the lands of Aumary Despenser, Roger Fitz Nicholas, and Ralph Bluet in Oxfordshire. SIR OSBERT GIFFORD died in 1248. Ancestor 3 (1902): 227 (his arms: Ermine two bars gules, on a chief gules a leopard or). Genealogist n.s. 28 (1922): 128-129. S. Painter, Reign of King John (1949), pp. 232-233. NEHGR 119 (1965): 94-102. T.D. Tremlett, Rolls of Arms Henry III (Harleian Soc. Pub., vols. 113-114) (1967), pg. 47. v. EUDES (or IVES) FITZ ROY, of Canewdon, Essex. In 1233 he was granted lands in Aldbury, co. Hertford. He had an exchequer fee of Ã20 granted to him in 1237. In the period, c. 1227/41, he witnessed a charter for his brother, Richard, Earl of Cornwall, to Launceston Priory in Cornwall. In 1240 he joined Earl Richard on a crusade to the Holy Land. EUDES FITZ ROY died there testate shortly before 21 Jan. 1241/2. His lands in Essex were granted to Giles de Chanceaux in 1242. No known descendants. G. Oliver, Monasticon Diocesis Exonienses (1846), pg. 23. C.C.R., 1231-1234 (1905), pg. 210 ("Eudoni filio regis"). C.P.R., 1232-1247 (1906), pp. 179 ("Eudo the king's brother"), 270 ("Eudo son of R. the king's brother"), 314 ("Eudo the king's brother"). C.C.R., 1237-1242 (1911), pp. 73 ("Eudoni fratri regis"), 386-387 ("Eudonis fratris regis"), 387 ("Ivonis fratris domini regis"), 532 ("Eudonis fratris nostri"). Cal. Liberate Rolls 1 (1916), pg. 263. N. Denholm-Young, Richard of Cornwall (1947), pp. 41,112. P.L. Hull, Cartulary of Launceston Priory (Devon & Cornwall Rec. Soc., n.s., vol. 30) (1987) 12 ("Yvo brother of the earl" [Richard, Earl of Cornwall]). vi. BARTHOLOMEW FITZ ROY, clerk, papal chaplain, member of the order of Friars Preachers, living Aug. 1254. Papal Registers: Letters 1 (1893): 281,286,305. vii. MAUD FITZ ROY, nun, elected Abbess of Barking 5 Aug. 1247; died shortly before 6 Feb. 1252. Sir William Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum 1 (1817): 437,441 ("Dame Maud la file le Roy John"). VCH Essex 2 (1907): 120. Alleged illegitimate child of John of England, by an unknown mistress, _____: i. ISABEL FITZ ROY, married RICHARD FITZ IVES, Knt., lord of Degembris (in Newlyn East), Cornwall. They had two sons, William Fitz Richard, Knt. (of Degembris and Penhallow [both in Newlyn East], Lanisley (in Gulival), and Rosneython and Trenoweth-Chammon [both in St. Keverne]) and Richard Fitz Richard (clerk), and one daughter, Isabel (wife of Belyn Hellegan, Knt.). He gave tithes in Gruguth (in St. Keverne), Cornwall. SIR RICHARD FITZ IVES allegedly died in 1207. Modern descendants (not traced). Herald and Genealogist 7 (1873): 229-231 (Isabel styled "filie Regis Joh'is"). Sir John Maclean, Parochial and Family Hist. of the Deanery of Trigg Minor 1 (1876): 317. J.L. Vivian, Visitations of Cornwall (1887), pg. 30. G.D. Stawell, A Quantock Family: The Stawells of Cothelstone and their Descendants (1910), pp. 44-45. J.H. Rowe, Cornwall Feet of Fines 1 (1914): 17,49,54-55,58-59,91-92,171,438-440. C.R.R. 11 (1955), pg. 473; 12 (1957): 189. NEHGR 119 (1965): 94-102. C.R.R. 18 (1999): 362-363. Harleian MS. 4031, ff. 76b,81. Possible illegitimate child of John of England, by an unknown mistress, _____: i. PHILIP FITZ ROY (possible child). In 1263 he and his wife, Lavina, conveyed lands at Bignor, Pebmarsh, and Petworth, Surrey to Henry Fitz [le] Roy, perhaps their son. L.F. Salzman, Abstract of Feet of Fines Relating to the County of Sussex (Sussex Rec. Soc., vol. 7) (1908), pg. 45 ("Ph[illip]um Fiz Le Rey" [i.e., Philip the king's son]) (cf. W. Hudson, Three Earliest Subsidies for the County of Sussex in the Years 1296,1327,1332 (Sussex Rec. Soc., vol. 19) (1910), pp. 73,95 (references to "Henr[icus] fyz le Rey" on 1296 Sussex subsidy). The following is a list of eleven bastard children of King John of England which I've assembled from a variety of sources. If anyone has any additions or corrections to this material, please let me know. The first two children listed, Richard Fitz Roy (or de Warenne), Baron of Chilham, Kent, and Joan, wife of Llywelyn ap Iowerth, Prince of North Wales, have many modern descendants. Although sometimes questioned, I accept Isabel, wife of Richard Fitz Ives, Knt., as a bastard daughter of King John. Isabel appears to have modern descendants. Besides Isabel, I've also included a new bastard child for King John not commonly found on such lists, namely Maud Fitz Roy, Abbess of Barking, whose identity is proven by the sources cited below. Sidney Painter, King John's historian, says of him: ".... cruel, lecherous, and deceitful." Surely the number of illegitimate children listed below for King John proves the lecherous part. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah E-mail: royalancestry@msn.com - - - - - - - - - - - - BASTARD CHILDREN OF KING JOHN OF ENGLAND Illegitimate child of John of England, by a mistress, _____ de Warenne: i. RICHARD FITZ ROY (or DE WARENNE), Knt., Baron of Chilham, Kent, married ROSE DE DOVER [see ATHOLL 4]. Illegitimate child of John of England, by a mistress, Clemence _____: i. JOAN OF ENGLAND, married LLYWELYN AP IORWERTH, Prince of North Wales [see WAKE 4]. Illegitimate child of John of England, by a mistress, Hawise _____: i. OLIVER FITZ ROY. He defended Wolvesey Castle for Peter des Roches, Bishop of Winchester, in 1216. In 1217 he was granted the lands formerly held by Peter Fitz Herbert to sustain him in the king';s service. In 1218 he arrived with other English knights at Damietta in the company of Papal legate, Pelayo. He did not return. H.R. Luard, Chronica Majora 3 (1876): 40-41. C.P.R., 1216-1225 (1901), pp. 42-43,92. S. Painter, Reign of King John (1949), pp. 232-233. NEHGR 119 (1965): 94-102. J.M. Powell, Anatomy of a Crusade (1986), pg. 235. N. Vincent, Peter des Roches (1996), pp. 71,175. Illegitimate children of John of England, by an unknown mistress (or mistresses): i. ISABEL FITZ ROY, married RICHARD FITZ IVES, Knt., lord of Degembris (in Newlyn East), Cornwall. They had two sons, William Fitz Richard, Knt. (of Degembris and Penhallow [both in Newlyn East], Lanisley, and Rosneython [in St. Keverne]) and Richard Fitz Richard (clerk), and one daughter, Isabel (wife of Belyn Hellegan, Knt.). He gave tithes in Gruguth (in St. Keverne), Cornwall. SIR RICHARD FITZ IVES died in 1207. Modern descendants (not traced in this book). Herald and Genealogist 7 (1873): 229-231. Sir John Maclean, Parochial and Family Hist. of the Deanery of Trigg Minor 1 (1876): 317. J.L. Vivian, Visitations of Cornwall (1887), pg. 30. J.H. Rowe, Cornwall Feet of Fines 1 (1914): 17,49,54-55,58-59,91-92,171,438-440. NEHGR 119 (1965): 94-102. Harleian MS. 4031, ff. 76b,81 (not seen). ii. JOHN FITZ ROY, evidently a clerk, supported by the custodians of the see of Lincoln in 1201. D.M. Stenton, Great Roll of the Pipe Michaelmas 1201 (Pipe Roll Soc., n.s., vol. 14) (1936), pp. xix,192-193. S. Painter, Reign of King John (1949), pp. 232-233. NEHGR 119 (1965): 94-102. iii. GEOFFREY FITZ ROY. In 1204 he received a loan by the pledge of William Longesp©be, Earl of Salisbury, and Peter de Stokes. In 1205 he led an expedition into Poitou and died the same year. Curia Regis Rolls 3 (1926): 321 (suit dated 1205: "... quam diu predictus Radulfus [de Trublevill] fuerit in servicio nostro in Pictavia cum Gaufrido filio nostro"). D.M. Stenton, Great Roll of the Pipe Michaelmas 1204 (Pipe Roll Soc., n.s., vol. 18) (1940), pp. xxxv-xxxvj,xlj,33,60,87,131. D.M. Stenton Great Roll of the Pipe Michaelmas 1205 (Pipe Roll Soc., n.s., vol. 19) (1941), pp. xviij-xix,19,79-80. S. Painter, Reign of King John (1949), pp. 232-233. NEHGR 119 (1965): 94-102. iv. HENRY FITZ ROY, Knt., of Waltham, Ashby, Brigsley, Gonerby (in Hatcliffe), Hawerby, and North Coates, co. Lincoln, and Chilham, Kent. He was sent as a student to the Prior of Kenilworth in 1207. In 1215 he was granted the lands of Robert Fitz Walter in Cornwall. In 1217 he and Ralph de Raleigh were granted the manor of Waltham, co. Lincoln to sustain them in royal service. In 1231 he was granted all of the land of Henry de la Vaugoz, a Norman, in the soke of Waltham, co. Lincoln. He married before 1236 EVE DE WHITCHURCH, widow of William de Champernoun (living 1230), of Umberleigh (in Atherington) and High Bickington, Devon, and daughter and heiress of Reynold de Whitchurch, of Shrivenham and Winterbourne (in Chieveley), co. Berks, by his 1st wife, Alice, daughter and co-heiress of Nicholas de Bolney. They had no issue. SIR HENRY FITZ ROY died shortly before 8 Apr. 1245. His widow, Eve, married (3rd) before 30 June 1252 Giles de Clifford (living 1276). C.Ch.R. 1 (1895): 137. J.L. Vivian, Visitations of the County of Devon (1895), pp. 160. Book of Fees 1: 362,617; 2 (1923): 660,675,1021. C.P.R., 1232-1247 (1906), pp. 20,296,450. C.C.R., 1237-1242 (1911), pg. 511. VCH Berkshire 4 (1924): 63,533. C.C.R., 1251-1253 (1927), pg. 116. S. Painter, Reign of King John (1949), pp. 232-233. NEHGR 119 (1965): 94-102. C.P. 12 Pt. 2 (1959): 645 (sub Wilington). Curia Regis Rolls 13 (1959): 514; 15 (1972): 83,449. S.D. Church, Household Knights of King John (1999), pg. 127. v. OSBERT GIFFORD. In 1215 he received the lands of Thomas de Ardern in Oxfordshire. In 1216 he likewise received Ardern's lands in Norfolk, Suffolk, and Sussex. In 1216 he and his wife received safe conduct to confer with King John. His subsequent history is unknown. Ancestor 3 (1902): 227 (his arms: Ermine, 2 bars gules, a chief gules with a leopard or in chief). Genealogist n.s. 28 (1922): 128-129. S. Painter, Reign of King John (1949), pp. 232-233. NEHGR 119 (1965): 94-102. vi. EUDES FITZ ROY, of Canewdon, Essex. In 1233 he was granted lands in Aldbury, co. Hertford. He had an exchequer fee iof Ã20 granted to him in 1237. In 1240 he joined his half-brother, Richard, Earl of Cornwall on a crusade to the Holy Land. EUDES FITZ ROY died there testate shortly before 21 Jan. 1241/2. His lands in Essex were granted to Giles de Chanceaus in 1242. No known descendants. G. Oliver, Monasticon Diocesis Exonienses (1846), pg. 23. C.C.R., 1231-1234 (1905), pg. 210. C.P.R., 1232-1247 (1906), pp. 179,270,314. C.C.R., 1237-1242 (1911), pp. 387,532. Cal. Liberate Rolls 1 (1916), pg. 263. N. Denholm-Young, Richard of Cornwall (1947), pp. 41,112. vii. BARTHOLOMEW FITZ ROY, clerk, papal chaplain, member of the order of Friars Preachers, living Aug. 1254. Papal Registers: Letters 1 (1893): 281,286,305. viii. MAUD FITZ ROY, nun, elected Abbess of Barking 5 Aug. 1247; died shortly before 6 Feb. 1252. Sir William Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum 1 (1817): 437,441. VCH Essex 2 (1907): 120. Signed Magna Carta in 1215 The statement in the legitimization of Joan, daughter of king John and wife of prince Llywelyn, that each of her parents were unmarried at the time of her birth, does not imply she was born prior to John's first marriage, to Isabelle de Clare in 1189. This marriage had been annulled by the time of Joan's legitimization, and would have been considered by the clerics not to have occurred. It might be that the legitimization does imply that, by the time of John's second marriage, to Isabelle of Angouleme, that Joan's mother was either dead or had become a nun, otherwise the legitimacy of king Henry III might have been called into question. It might also be that the reference in Joan's obituary to her mother as "queen Clementia" implies that Clemence, mother of Joan, did not die or become a nun until after John's accession. I suspect that in the minds of the monks and clerics who recorded things, these annulments and legitimizations created a virtual world in which annulled real world marriages did not exist, and appropriate legitimizing marriages did exist, with all appropriate side effect implications, including Clemence having been queen.. - Paul K. Davis - paulkdavis@earthlink.net King John had illegitimate children over the entire course of his adult life. He was a very busy man in the bedroom. One of his older bastard sons, Geoffrey, received a loan by the pledge of William Longesp©be, Earl of Salisbury, and Peter de Stokes in 1204. In 1205 he led an expedition into Poitou and died the same year. King John likewise had another illegitimate daughter, Joan, who married before 23 Mar. 1204/5 Llywelyn ap Iowerth, Prince of North Wales. Consequently, it is possible that King John was the father of Isabel, wife of Richard Fitz Ives, who allegedly died in 1207. By the way, I have reason to suppose that Isabel survived Richard Fitz Ives for many years and remarried. Second, Isabel de Beaupre is not the same person as King John's bastard daughter, Isabel, wife of Richard Fitz Ives. As best I can tell, Isabel de Beaupre is a later day descendant and the senior heiress of the Fitz Ives family. I didn't mean to imply that the two Isabel's were the same person. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah |
tree1 |
| 10744 | I62885 | Plantagenet | John | Bef May 1286 | Bef 1327 | 0 | Grismond Castle | tree1 |
| 10745 | I62885 | Plantagenet | John | Bef May 1286 | Bef 1327 | 0 | Unamrried | tree1 |
| 10746 | I66524 | PLANTAGENET | JOHN | 24 Jun 1340 | 03 Feb 1398 | 0 | Leicester Castle | tree1 |
| 10747 | I66524 | PLANTAGENET | JOHN | 24 Jun 1340 | 03 Feb 1398 | 0 | [King Penrose Family.GED] [WilliamKingAncestry.ged] Children born to Catherine de Roet prior to marriage were later legitimated by legislators without rights of Succession to the throne. See B Burke: Dormant and Extinct Peerages. M E Sorley: The Sorley Pedigrees pp 49, 26 M L Call: The Royal Ancestry Bible Vol 1 Chart 20 |
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| 10748 | I67694 | Plantagenet | Lionel of Antwerp | 29 Nov 1338 | 07 Oct 1368 | 0 | Augustine Friars | tree1 |
| 10749 | I44594 | Plantagenet | Margaret | 29 Sep 1240 | 26 Feb 1275 | 0 | Windsor Caslte | tree1 |
| 10750 | I62887 | Plantagenet | Mary | Abt 1288 | 0 | Grismond Castle | tree1 |
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